From: Darien Large []
Sent: Saturday, August 17, 2002 11:08 AM
To: 'kmellis'
Subject: FW: My quote
I talked with A about some of this just the other day. As you know, this
is one of the subjects we're usually not capable of discussing without
both of us getting really defensive and argumentative, even when we're not
disagreeing. But it suddenly struck us both as quite odd that we'd never
said some of these things to one another before now. And she agreed with
me, when I said, "If we had met when we were 17, I think I could have
turned out straight." At first I was very gratified that she had the
insight to see that, but later I realized that it probably just confirmed
her view of sexual orientation as a religious mystery, in the presence of
which one's only proper response is to avert one's eyes, and never to
examine.
This is getting onto a bit of a tangent now, but in talking with Bob and
relating this story to him he helped me realize a sadness that arises here
and in other places--something I'm sure you can relate to very well. I am
a reasoning creature. Reason is a deep, deep, thread in the weave of me
and that is never going to change. So when A takes my garrulousness in
these matters as a combative move or as an attempt to dishonor her
somehow, it hurts me because she isn't meeting me where I live and where I
want to be met: in reason and in love of understanding, in awe of the
human ability to comprehend without turning away from mystery. Mostly when
people do come to see how deeply important reason and knowing is to me,
they (sometimes with justification, I admit) assume that it's a defense
against feeling, that it's arrogant, that it's disrespectful of them, that
it's a denial of their right to be who they are. But that's not what I
really want from reason-- its proper use is not a club, it's more like a
telescope, something I use to gather, to focus, and to encompass the
unfathomably huge for just a few moments before I put it away and marvel
once more.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Keith
> Sent: Friday, October 26, 2001 6:12 PM
> To: Darien Large; Erin
> Subject: FW: My quote
>
> In contrast, my best friend, a gay man, found that although he fell in
> love with and lived with a woman for three years; in the end he really
> preferred having sex with other men.
>
> So, in both of these cases, our own experiences have been more
> characterized by biological determinism. However, neither of us are
> happy with the determinist "party line" and we both speak out against
> it not infrequently.
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Darien Large []
> > Sent: Friday, October 26, 2001 9:12 PM
> > To: 'kmellis'; Erin
> > Subject: RE: My quote
> >
> >
> >
> > Ah, now you *have* got my attention.
> >
> > Let me tell you the opinion I've formed over the last few years
> > about my own situation, orientation, what have you. I've come to
> > believe more and more that I *could have* ended up a happily
> > straight person.
> >
> > Almost from the first time, at age 17, that I admitted to myself
> > that I was gay, I would look back on some formative experiences that
> > I'd had in that direction and try to make sense of them -- they
> > always seemed strangely contingent to me, as if the point that I'd
> > arrived at was the result of chance. It was like I was in the middle
> > of a random walk, but I'd stumbled onto a one-way street.
> >
> > I'm not going to try to be persuasive; I'll just give you the
> > fully-formed story that I've settled on for myself. (I'll be happy
> > to argue it later, I'm just not in a very rhetorical mood right now
> > :) I started out with a very, very slight inclination towards
> > homosexuality, or perhaps it was simply that I started out with a
> > bit more sexual openness than is typical (in the latter case, this
> > openness could be part of my upbringing, my "environment" just as
> > much as it could be part of my temperament); subsequently I
> > encountered a few opportunities to express or explore my sexuality
> > in a homosexual context and the results were favorable. I got
> > positive reinforcement enough times, and negative
> > reinforcement seldom enough, that I continued to move in that
> > direction during a key developmental stage. At the other end,
> > around puberty, out pops a homo.
> >
> > I admit that this story has been fairly colored by the things I've
> > learned in the last few years about development in the individual
> > organism (biologically speaking; also culturally in a somewhat
> > social species like humans). Many things have the *potential* to
> > turn out any way at all, but once they being developing -- since
> > they can't develop in all directions at once -- a path is chosen
> > somehow or other; and once that happens, it's very difficult to
> > rewind. Think about the acquisition of language in humans, for
> > example. The human brain has an equal capacity to learn *any human
> > language*; but the vast majority of human brains only learn one
> > during the developmental years. Once that stage is over, it's
> > impossible to attain the level of fluency one has with one's
> > native language.
> >
> > I think I've expressed to you one thing I've learned about myself
> > and people in general since the time I quit Dell and started having
> > sex again. I've learned that people develop at different rates, and
> > different aspects of their selves develop at different rates within
> > the individual. I joke about it and I exaggerate it to the point
> > where I tell people that I hit puberty at age 30; but there's a
> > grain of truth to that. Extrapolating backwards, I could posit that
> > I went through some key developmental stages as a child at a later
> > age than most people do, and perhaps that contributed to the
> > feeling I have that my orientation was completely up for
> > grabs until late in the game.
> >
> > Contrast with some gay people who say that they knew they were gay
> > at age four, or three -- or even younger! One must take these claims
> > with a grain of salt, but I do know that people become aware of (or
> > develop) different aspects of themselves at different ages. (I don't
> > remember *a thing* until around age six.) And you hear these stories
> > often enough that I don't think one can dismiss them entirely.
> > They're talking about *something*, even if they're not
> > talking about exactly what they claim to be. If it can work
> > in that direction, it can certainly work in the other.
> >
> > This just feels right to me. I don't think I've ever regretted that
> > I wasn't bisexual (or, Heaven forbid,
> > straight!) the way you do, but when I examine my emotional
> > and sexual makeup, and when I pay attention to the vestigial
> > responses I sometimes have to the opposite sex and recall
> > what it was like for me as a preteen and a teenager, this is
> > the explanation that makes the most sense. And needless to
> > say, there's A. The fact is that we would have broken up
> > even if she was a man; it just might have taken longer. While
> > I was with her, especially at the beginning, the sex was
> > *right* -- and yet, I *never* wondered whether I was
> > bisexual. That's very difficult for people to understand, and
> > part of the explanation is that we were in love. But I know
> > believe that another part of the explanation is that, for the
> > time we were together, I was exploring an alternate world for
> > me; one that could have been, it just didn't happen to be.
> >
> > So, for me, it could be biological *only* in the sense that perhaps
> > I started out somewhere closer to the middle than is typical. I
> > *don't* think that I started out with a biological factor that means
> > I would have ended up gay with a high degree of probability, and I
> > *don't* think I ever had any chance -- to tell a still-common story
> > -- of ending up thinking I was straight until age 35 with a wife and
> > kids, and only then discovering that I'd had it all wrong. If I'd
> > started out down that road instead, I'm pretty sure I'd have
> > ended up a happily well-adjusted hetero.
> >
> > Well, at least as far as sexual orientation goes.
> >
> > Yr friend Darien
> >
>